Is T.D. Jakes Apostate?

Hello to all

There are many Preachers to date, that have fallen to the way side. Into the thorns, rocks, and ditch. In other words they have fallen from grace.

The book of Galatians (paraphrased) defines falling from grace as adding works, or the adding of the law to the teaching of Christ. Grace is unmerited favoritism. It is being lead by the holy spirit. It is bearing spiritual fruit. It is many things, but that which is taught in many churches today.

Some examples ( in my opinion) of ministers who are bearing something other then the fruit of the spirit are ; Joel Olsten, Beth Meyers, Benny Hinn, Rick Warren, Kenneth Hagin, the Copeland’s, Price, and T.D. Jakes. There are many others to numerous to mention. I’m sure my comments will offend some.

The teachings of most of these supposed pastors is the flesh, and lying signs and wonders. These false signs include false healings, and false tongues.

One of these false preachers is T.D. Jakes. His ministry can be characterized by hyper emotional preaching about prosperity, health, fleshy methods of pleasing God.

Another thing that you may not know about Jakes! He appeared on the Larry King show back in November of 2009. At the beginning of the show he stated that he was pro-life. But he lamented that abortion was distracting people from the important issue of health care.

He acted as the false prophet to Obama’s false Messiah by proclaiming him a man of faith. But that proclamation still wasn’t the “Coup De Grace” . Larry King asked Jakes if he would vote for the health care bill if it (health care), paid for abortion. Jakes said yes.

Jakes preaches a counterfeit version of the gospel, and a counterfeit version of Christ. He is teaching people to simultaneously perform works, and violate the commandments at the same time. Thou shall not kill, Mr. Jakes.

2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you — unless, of course, you fail the test? NIV

1 Thess 5:21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. NIV

1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. NIV

James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. NIV

One of the most difficult things is to determine how to judge. We are told that as we judge, so like wise, we will be judged. If we are to judge we should judge by righteous judgment. We are told to treat others as if they are pariah’s if they preach another gospel., then that already taught by the apostles.

We are criticized for judging others, and rightly so. Because we do so in a unrighteous manner. We see failure to obey the law as being a sign of failure and evil in the other persons character, but not in our own, if we do the same. We see the lack of Jesus as also the fault of the person. Instead of the will of God. But if a person uses the Jesus word, then Christians are more than happy to over look the all sorts of deficiencies in that person. How do we treat someone like Jakes? Lets test ourselves.

Al

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by KPerry on March 13, 2010 at 10:16pm: I am not sure what to think sometimes about all of this. I am not a big fan of some of these peachers who are all about money and works etc. But there still has to be grace given on our end of things. I am not sure where to draw the line when it comes to judging. I do not feel like it is right to judge someone's walk with the Lord. This is only one part of who the person will become. For God is always tranforming all of us.

As far as the abortion statement that TD made I feel like that one issue cannot be the only reason we vote for someone or not. There should always be an exception to the rule such as incest, rape, and the heaIth of the mother etc. I actually like Obama and have no problem believing that he is a man of faith, the christian faith. I just think that we are all in different spots of the same road.

I do believe that people who are in a position of power especially in the churches should be held to a high standard and should be very careful to preach grace, Christ and Him crucified but I know that in my life it took sometime for God to reveal His grace to me. I think instead of judging these folks we should pray for them and ask God to reveal His grace to them. That seems to be the best mode of action. I do not believe most these folks are evil or have ill intentions to decieve although there are some out there. Anyways, just a thought.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Alveno Kondyles on March 14, 2010 at 3:26pm: KPERRY

I will give you credit for responding!

I’m sorry though that you haven’t been given the discernment to know that abortion is wrong no matter what the situation is, specially from a famous preacher who is supposedly speaking for God. Thou shall not kill! I can understand extending mercy to a poor young teenage girl who has already had an abortion, in the sense that God will forgive her, if she wants forgiveness, and seeks mercy, in this life. Of coarse someday in the future God will redeem all, in the final age. But for now if I had the opportunity to stop her I would. I would tell her that abortion is wrong.

What is wrong with telling people that their wrong? Jakes should be telling people that God is Love, and then say go and sin no more. He should also be an example on how to live a Christian life, because of his position.

I don’t think that we should be extending grace to a man like that. He should be ostracized from the Christian community, until he is repented by God, and he confesses his error. We can understand the sin nature in the man, we can understand the why about a lot of things, but there has to be consequences. Evil has to be restrained. We shouldn’t make excuses for others just because we see the same weakness in ourselves.

We need to confess our sins, and our sinful nature as well!

If we’re afraid to act on our convictions. Then what is the point? James said I will show you my faith, by my works. Not works of the flesh, but fruit of the spirit. Coddling criminals is not love, when we allow the innocent to be harmed. Evil if defined as harm.

I was a corrections officer for 20 years. I enforced the rules, and kept the convicts locked up. But I treated everyone the same, and I was fair. I had enough integrity that I was liked by the good inmates, and hated by the bad inmates.

That was good enough for me.

Al; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by KPerry on March 14, 2010 at 6:08pm: I am not saying that we should not have standards. I certainly believe we should but I think there is a fine line between standing up for what is right and bashing or judging someone. God's grace is to all. Love keeps no record of wrong.

I agree that if God puts someone in your life that you have a relationship with it would be very appropriate to tell them that abortion is not the best option. But I do not see how telling someone that we have no relationship with that it is wrong like the crazys who stand across from the abortion clinics how does that do any good?

I am not as black and white on these subjects as you seem to be. I used to be that way but I do feel that if someone is being abused especially by a family member or something like that they should not have to carry the seed of that predator.

I am not saying of let's just go out and tell people that they can do what they want and God will just be great with that. I am saying that it is God who has to write His laws upon our hearts and the hearts of others. Legalism and condemnation will not bring anyone to God. It is the goodness of God that leads to repentance. But I am not here to tell you how to think. I am glad that we can talk and share without judging one another. It is good to hear other's views.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by KPerry on March 14, 2010 at 8:38pm: I guess I should have given more clarification on who the people are that I was speaking of. When I referred to the crazys I was speaking of those that have the signs that say God hates you etc., those that shoot abortion doctors.

I certainly did not mean for you to be offended.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Joseph Parish on March 14, 2010 at 9:59pm: That's alright, I am over it. Sometimes that is the problem with posts, we know what we mean, but it is not clear to others. I have done the same thing.

The important ingredient in anything is the Love of Christ:)

Blessings

KPerry said:
I guess I should have given more clarification on who the people are that I was speaking of. When I referred to the crazys I was speaking of those that have the signs that say God hates you etc., those that shoot abortion doctors.

I certainly did not mean for you to be offended.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by KPerry on March 14, 2010 at 10:32pm: Thank you for understanding. Yes I am new to blogging so I realize that I need to be more expressive and make sure that my thoughts are more clear :); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Alveno Kondyles on March 14, 2010 at 11:22pm: I hope that your not a hypocrite about it. I hope that you don‘t shoot the criminal when he breaks into your house some night. If he wants to hurt your family I hope you remember that this other guy has feelings to. It not just about you, and your family.

I have a question for you. Is the unborn baby a human being, or a person? If not, why? If so then how can you say that anyone has the right to kill that person. Why should a raped woman have the right to take her vengeance out on another human being, by having them killed. How does that make things right? Why can’t the baby be adopted out? Why is it so important that we have to kill this baby? How can someone like yourself have more sympathy for a murderer then a innocent unborn baby?

Something about you doesn’t add up! I wonder if your protecting someone? Maybe your trying to justify your past behavior? Maybe your unequally yoked to some flaming liberal pro choice girl, and your afraid that she‘ll break up with you, if you make a moral judgment. Maybe you’re a liberal pretending to be a Christian? The white house has a website that instructs people on how to call conservative talk shows to push the liberal agenda. But that’s between you and your conscious.

God loves all, but he is testing all of us to. He wants to show us that we are failures. That we have good intentions sometime, but we are unable to back them up. Don’t tell me that you can feel more love for a murderer, or a thief then you can for the innocent unborn baby. You can not love as God does. Even so, God will himself, kill people, and has in the past. What did Jesus say about the person that prevents a innocent child from coming to him? If it’s between a innocent person dying, and a guilty person dying, and I am told to make the choice, then it will be the guilty person that will die. That is the proper choice. Unless it acceptable for you to die to save both. You can do that if you get the chance.

God uses us to show grace to others, shouldn’t you show some grace to babies to?

KPerry said:
I am not saying that we should not have standards. I certainly believe we should but I think there is a fine line between standing up for what is right and bashing or judging someone. God's grace is to all. Love keeps no record of wrong.

I agree that if God puts someone in your life that you have a relationship with it would be very appropriate to tell them that abortion is not the best option. But I do not see how telling someone that we have no relationship with that it is wrong like the crazys who stand across from the abortion clinics how does that do any good?

I am not as black and white on these subjects as you seem to be. I used to be that way but I do feel that if someone is being abused especially by a family member or something like that they should not have to carry the seed of that predator.

I am not saying of let's just go out and tell people that they can do what they want and God will just be great with that. I am saying that it is God who has to write His laws upon our hearts and the hearts of others. Legalism and condemnation will not bring anyone to God. It is the goodness of God that leads to repentance. But I am not here to tell you how to think. I am glad that we can talk and share without judging one another. It is good to hear other's views.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by KPerry on March 14, 2010 at 11:34pm: wow that is about all I will say.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Alveno Kondyles on March 15, 2010 at 12:23pm: I might have made a mistake in my last comment. I don't see very well, and I didn't blow up the picture of KPerry. I don't know why but I assumed that I was speaking to a male, and my comments may reflect that. From the picture, it seems that I might have been speaking to a woman. If that is the case, then her attitude about abortion might be more understandable, since women are more pro abortion then men. The difference between men, and women on this issue is puzzling.

Al; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Joseph Parish on March 15, 2010 at 1:03pm: Greetings Al,

I've read through this thread, and I must say I share your passion for some of the issues, especially abortion. My view is that life is a gift from the Creator and we should embrace it, no matter the circumstances in which it came to be.

But, I am wondering how productive it is to spend time and energy on an “apostasy hunt”. I am bringing this up, because years ago I was being pastored by a zealous minister whose main thrust was "the apostate church". This was one of the most miserable times of my faith walk. I stumbled upon a website a couple of months ago that listed all “the apostates” according to this one group's view, and the list included many of the people you are talking about, plus a few of my favorite Christian apologists, such as C.S. Lewis. C.S. Lewis, the author of “Mere Christianity”,and the Narnia series an apostate??????

A wise pastor friend pointed out to me years ago (following my horrific experience at the anti-apostate church), “If a person wants to spot counterfeit money, he doesn't spend time studying all the hundreds of possible counterfeits, but he studies the real deal and learns it like the palm of his hand. That way, he will spot a counterfeit a mile a way”. BTW, this pastor was the one who first introduced me to the idea of UR – he planted a seed.

Maybe if all of us spent more energy on our relationship with Jesus and bringing the “real deal” to people, we needn't worry about some silly televangelist. Just a thought.

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Alveno Kondyles on March 16, 2010 at 2:25pm: Thank you Joseph for your reply. I made this post back in January, almost two months ago. First I wanted the Christian community to know that such a high profile pastor was actually encouraging others to sin. Secondly I tried to show a slight bit ambiguity in my post even though I have strong feelings about abortion, because I wanted each person to judge for themselves. Third it was meant to be a test.

I was surprised that no one expressed, or offered an opinion before KPerry did. I was hoping that some people would express an affirmative for life, also I was wondering if some brave soul would actually make a statement concerning certain acts, actions, and deeds that could be considered as incompatible with living a spirit filled life. Anti Holy Spirit fruit vs. Holy Spirit fruit. Therefore one could then conclude that a person had indeed fallen from grace. I thought that some introspection about what it takes to have a faith proving walk would be good.

I am a nobody. I have already been told by one person at this website, that I am irrelevant But I have been sorely disappointed in general with some at this website, specially those that seem to comment a lot. I see in general a form of self absorption, and in general a lack of back bone, external, and internal fortitude..

When KPerry actually took the side of Jakes, and was actually encouraging others to sin (even if she wasn‘t aware of it), I had to make a strong statement against that attitude. I am one of those that would strongly come down on the side of grace, vs. the ability of the law to save people. But we do not encourage anyone to violate those laws. The law is meant to show us as sinners, without the ability to obey it. But we do not throw the law out. We are told that the law is good. We need instead forgiveness for when we break the law.

Anyone breaking the law is a sinner, but we are sinners from birth. We can’t help but break the law, this self knowledge should drive us in the arms of Jesus.

Is there nothing that we can certain of ? I’ve been called to certain on some things. I guess I’m suppose to lack faith, like some others. Everyone who lacks certainty, and everyone who believes that they are certain should take the time to examine themselves, judge themselves etc.

Joseph! If you have time read my Blog on Noah’s Flood. I would like opinions on that. It’s only a theory, or guess on my part, therefore since I not 100% sure about it, I wont be arguing with anyone who disagrees.

Al; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Joseph Parish on March 17, 2010 at 11:01am: Thanks for your reply. I did like your Noah's flood blog, and left a comment.

I didn't get the impression that KPerry was taking the side of Jakes or encouraging others to sin, some people are just not clear on some issues, and I'm not on some either. I don't know why my soul is vexed about some issues, such as abortion, yet not on others. Seems our minds have been conditioned to think a certain way, and it takes years of renewing our minds to transform us. What is obvious to some, is not clear to others. We are all alike in that we are a work in progress. Like the bumper sticker says:

"Please be patient, God is not finished with me yet"

Alveno Kondyles said:
Thank you Joseph for your reply. I made this post back in January, almost two months ago. First I wanted the Christian community to know that such a high profile pastor was actually encouraging others to sin. Secondly I tried to show a slight bit ambiguity in my post even though I have strong feelings about abortion, because I wanted each person to judge for themselves. Third it was meant to be a test.

I was surprised that no one expressed, or offered an opinion before KPerry did. I was hoping that some people would express an affirmative for life, also I was wondering if some brave soul would actually make a statement concerning certain acts, actions, and deeds that could be considered as incompatible with living a spirit filled life. Anti Holy Spirit fruit vs. Holy Spirit fruit. Therefore one could then conclude that a person had indeed fallen from grace. I thought that some introspection about what it takes to have a faith proving walk would be good.

I am a nobody. I have already been told by one person at this website, that I am irrelevant But I have been sorely disappointed in general with some at this website, specially those that seem to comment a lot. I see in general a form of self absorption, and in general a lack of back bone, external, and internal fortitude..

When KPerry actually took the side of Jakes, and was actually encouraging others to sin (even if she wasn‘t aware of it), I had to make a strong statement against that attitude. I am one of those that would strongly come down on the side of grace, vs. the ability of the law to save people. But we do not encourage anyone to violate those laws. The law is meant to show us as sinners, without the ability to obey it. But we do not throw the law out. We are told that the law is good. We need instead forgiveness for when we break the law.

Anyone breaking the law is a sinner, but we are sinners from birth. We can’t help but break the law, this self knowledge should drive us in the arms of Jesus.

Is there nothing that we can certain of ? I’ve been called to certain on some things. I guess I’m suppose to lack faith, like some others. Everyone who lacks certainty, and everyone who believes that they are certain should take the time to examine themselves, judge themselves etc.

Joseph! If you have time read my Blog on Noah’s Flood. I would like opinions on that. It’s only a theory, or guess on my part, therefore since I not 100% sure about it, I wont be arguing with anyone who disagrees.

Al; ▶ Reply to This